Flow-konferencia: január 2010

On the resemblance of the sensation of Otto Rudolf’ s numinous and Mihály Csíkszentmihályi’s Flow

Written by: Daniel Frank

In my lecture I am going to try to compare the perception, which was called numinous by Otto Rudolf in the beginning of the XX th. century with the perception/sensation what Mihály Csikszentmihályi called Flow in the third quarter of the XX th. Century. I think that these two sensations are almost numeically identitcal. However there is one cardinal difference between them, while in Otto’s work the numinous sensation comes forth from experiencing the Numen (God), the feeling of the Flow can be the consequence of any activites: you can feel it, while doing a sport, painting or even while working. It seems like – for you- that time has stopped for a second, and you cannot sense your problems.

I feel as if Csiíkszentmihályi’s thoughts are the extensions of Otto’s numinous from the religious to oridinary expereinces.

1,Otto’s numinous

Even the title of Otto’s major work (The saint) can mislead us, because he is not discussing the concept of the saint accepted by common sense.

In the ordinary usage the expression saint means the followings: absolutely virtuous, perfect, good. But according to Otto these are not the proper uses of this term. He even accepts, that this word reflects to these things mentioned above however it contains an emotional surplus.

If we agree with Otto then the Latin: sanctus, the Greek: hagios, the Hebrew: qados terms originally reflected to this emotional excess and have not pointed to the moral surplus.

After Otto has showed to the reader what’s the difference between the modern, and the older common use of the expression: saint, he is broaching up a new term, which is reflecting to the older usage of the concept of the saint. When we are experencing the Numen ( God) we can feel the numinous sensation. The Numen is God without any moral excess.

1.1. The elements of the numinous: creautre feeling (teremtmény érzet).

In order to feel the numinous sensation there has to be more emotions in the specific person at the same time. Besides more others one of these is the creature feeling. The person who is experiencing this feels like if she/he was nothing, because she/he has faced the Creator.

The absolute creature feeling (dependence) can only evolve if one can feel the absolute mastership of the Creator.

1.2.The Mysterium tremendum and the majestas

Who would not be scared of the Creator? On icons we can frequently see the closest servants of the Lord, the angels who are trembling from the simple presence of God. From this we must conclude, the humans whose power is far less than the angels’ has to be afraid from God. Otto is approaching the topic from a linguistic point of view. He is bringing up examples from three different languages for expressing fear. In Greek: sebastos, in English: awe, in German: Grauen.

According to Otto the religious sensation of fear has not evolved from natural fear. Or in other words: if you are shuddering from the Creator it is not a natural fear. Only those can have this special kind of sensation in whose soul something unique has moved. It is also important to note, that int he opinion of Otto the natural fear and the fear of God do not differ in quantity, but in quality. In other words: we can enhance the natural fear ad infiniutm, however doing so we will never reach the religious fear of God.

The Mysterium tremendum also means the absolute inaccessability, part of this is the Power of God, the full mastership: the majestas.

1.3 Mysterium

While examining this element of the numinous Otto is using his linguistic method again. The root of the expression mysterium comes from the sanscrit term mus, which means: hidden. In this ancient language words like: cheating or stealing came from this root. The meaining of mysterium is: secret or foreign.

A mystical object cannot be understood. I can never understand it, because its nature is completely different ( mert egészen más a természete). A profane example for this is the ghost. This creature like the Creator is completly different, a thing what does not belong to our reality. That’s why many people are so interested in ghosts.

1.4 Fascians

Despite of the fact that the numunous is scaring, its still attracting and stunning. The fascians is the element of the numinous, which can tranquil the soul. The nature of the fascians is alike in all of the religions. The nirvana is only negative as a concept, the sensation itself makes those who believe in it for the strongest devotion.

1.5. The amazing ( a bámulatos)

According to Otto the real meaning of the term amazing is: what makes us uncomfortable, when we are close to it, what is hidden or numinous. We feel this when we are close to the Creator.

1.6 The augustum

The augustum is one of the the major elements of the numinous. It is the commanding part of the sensation.

1.7. The summuary of the numinous

The term saint is a complex concept, which has a rational and an irrational part. However the numinous sensation is not emenating from the feelings, but its coming forth from them. The numinous is reflecting to a deeper reason, what is more than Kant’s pure reason.

In order to be able to feel the numinous sensation the soul has to have the disposition what makes it able to sense it.

If you are axperiencing the numinous sensation it has a terrifying effect on you and it occurs over and over again frequently.

2, Csíkszentmihályi’s Flow

After briefly summarizing Otto’s numinous le tus examine, what Csíkszentmihályi writes about the Flow sensation:

The ’Flow’ is the phenomenon, when our mind is in a harmonical order and we would like to continue the activity, which we are currently doing for its own sake. Thiniking of some activite types in which the flow experience occurs often- these are for instance: the sport, the game, the art, and the practice of different hobbies-, we can more easily understand what makes people happy (The original Hungarian part of the text is: „ Flow” (áramlat) az a jelenség, amikor tudatunk harmonikusan rendezett, és magának a tevékenységnek a kedvéért szeretnénk folytatni, amit éppen csinálunk. Néhány olyan tevékenységi formára gondolva, melyekben az áramlat-élmény gyakorta jelentkezik- ilyen például a sport, a játék, a művészet és a különböző hobbik gyakorlása-, könnyebben megértjük mi teszi boldoggá az embereket.)

We could see before, that Otto has said, in order to be able to have to sensation of the numinous our soul has to be able recieve it. Like Otto Csíkszetmihályi writes that not all of us are capable of experiencing the Flow.

Some individuals who have scizophrenia cannot have this expereince because they sense too many things in their environment, even the unimportatn ones. Because they cannot focus they are listening to everything, but therefore they cannot be happy.

However there can be other cases, when someone cannot be happy. Csíkszentmihályi describes the native population of the Caribbean islands who were conquared by few Euorpean nations and were forced to work for them on the crop fields, their life had become so painful that they could not be happy anymore and did not even reproduce, so they became extinct.

On the other hand the author describes persons whom he calls Flow-people ( Áramlat-emberek), who can be happy in situation, what would be found unbearable by others.

Besides others he mentions a man who was in the same jail as Solzsencinyicn. This person made a world map to the wall of the prison and he imagined, he was going trough Asia and Europe and he has proceeded a couple of kilometers each day. But not he was the only on who has kept himself alive in this way. Hitler’s favouire architect Albert Speer only survived the time spent in jail, because he imagined as he was travelling from Berlin to Jerusalem imagining the landscape and the events happenin trough his journey. However we can also be happy in ordinary situations, for instance: when we are dancing.

2.1 The joys coming forth from moving

According to Csíkszentmihályi not only sport, but also dancing can bring us happiness. From the most rudimentary to the most complex forms of dances can bring us joy.

Many of the elderly people think that dancing in discos is purposeless and bizarre. In the opinion of Csíkszentmihályi it is an important source of happiness for young individuals.

According to my view we can say that dancing between many people can be a source of happiness even for older people. And it is because one element of the numinous. While dancing to an extremley loud music, you might not even feel yourself, you cannot hear your own voice, but you can have the creature feeling. You may feel like you are nothing compared to the mass. I argue it is a profane manifestiaton of the creature feeling.

2.2. Joys of sexual acitvity

Csíkszentmihályi states, that when people are thinking of joyful things they are most likely thinking of sex.

At the beginning of a relationship it is enough to explore phisycal challanges to experience the Flow, however if we do not develop romantic love our relationship can easily become still water.

According to me the Flow sensation coming forth from sexual expereince is the profane type of Otto’s Mysterium. When we are experiencing a new person’s curious body, desires and reactions to our sexual acts we can say that we are exploring a new territory and it fills us with joy and excitement. And as Otto has written we cannot understand the mystical object- in this case the other person.

3, Comparing the two sensations

Despite of the fact I have examined only portions of the great works of Otto and Csíkszentmihályi. I believe I can make some inherences.

I don’t see major difference between the sensation of the numinous and of the Flow. I think we are genetically and socially programmed to be able to feel the state of perfect happiness, whether we call it numinous or Flow. I am convinced that the elements of the numinous can be all found in the Flow. But indeed it is true I have only mentioned two sacred elements, which in my opinion can occur int he Flow. Namely: the creature feeling and the Mysterium. However it is not too difficult to prove the presence of the other parts of the numinous int he Flow.

Let us pick the Myterium tremendum for instance. If Kate Stuart, a religious English citizen goes to the church and there he is shaking when he feels he is facing with God, why would it be impossible for her to feel the same, when he can see the Queen of her country?

4, Personal experiences

After introducing and comparing these two sensations let me tell a couple of examples from my own life for experiencing the numinous.

Let me demonstrate three of them. One with music, one with a book and one with a movie.

A, I can go the distance

Even Descartes thought that tales can make your mind sharper, but many of us are just laughing on those adults who are reading or watching tales. I have to admit that I love talis and animatied movies, because they can teach me many things ina n understendable way. However they are not only teaching and enterating me, but the music of some of them instantly makes me to feel the numinous sensation. For instance the song I can go the distance from the movie Hercules makes me shiver and sometimes even cry.

B, The chronicles of Narnia

Many people praise the novel The Lord of the Rings, but many of them don’t have a clue of the great book: The Chronicles of Narnia, which written by C.S. Lewis, a great friend of the author of the previously mentioned book. But unfortunately people who have not read Lewis’ novel think it is just one of those usual fairy tales. The intention of the author was however to write a fabulous story both for children and for adults of the values of beliving in God. Despite I am an agnostic, and I do not know whether God exists or not, while reading this book I have experinced the creature feeling and the Mysterium tremendum many times.

C, Avatar

Most critiques written on the new movie of James Cameron emphasize how great this film appears ont he screen, especially if you are watching the 3Dimension version of it. They are thinking of the beautiful creatures, the special effects and so on. It is all true, but for me not these things made up the core of this masterpiece. But rather the union of the different creatures with each other and with their planet and their environment made me feel the numinous sensation. It was asthonishing as the human like native creatures of the moond named Pandora could unite themself with the plants and even with the ferocious beasts mentally, by sticking their hair into them.

You could note that I have used the term numinous instead of Flow in this final part, it was the result of a concious decision. I prefer Otto’s term despite of the fact I am an agnostic. However I like it so much, because I think all of our profane joys and our happiness can be explained with the elements of Otto’s numinous.

Literature

Csíkszentmihályi Mihály: Flow Az áramlat, A tökéletes élmény pszichológiája Translated by: Legéndyné Szabó Edit, Akadémiai Kiadó, Budapest, 2001.

Otto, Rudolf: A szent Transleted by: Bendl Júlia, Osiris Kiadó, Budapest, 2001.

Folyamatszemlélet a történettudományban

- a birodalmi paradigma példáján

HA és amennyiben hasznosítható a folyamat-filozófiai metodika történettudományi konkretizáláson (mint az általános a különösben), akkor ennek lehetséges példájaként (mint a különös az egyesben) Atropates perzsaà makedónà atropatenei uralkodó esetét; valamint az iszlám előtti-iszlám kori közel-keleti birodalmak példáján bizánci-arab kölcsönhatásokat, illetve a középkori Andalúzia iszlám-zsidó-keresztény békés államából előbb a beduin dinasztia keményebb, majd a keresztények visszafoglalása utáni drasztikussá váló belső struktúrájú Ibériai-félsziget példáján a tudományra termékenyítőleg ható dialógus-paradigmát, és másokat elemzünk.

A szerző alapvetően történetfilozófusként és vallástörténészként kíván hozzászólni a 19/20. századforduló történettudományának birodalmi paradigmája, valamint a 20. század derekának marxista osztályellentét-paradigmája, nemkülönben a messianisztikus vallási történetfelfogások üdvtörténet-paradigmája mellé párhuzamba állítható folyamat-filozófián alapuló történetfilozófiához, ha és amennyiben ilyen van vagy lehetséges. Nem kíván egyik mellett sem kiállni, hanem valamennyit konfrontáltatni. Példaanyagát elsősorban az általa ismert ókori közel-keleti, valamint az iszlám kultúrkörrel érintkező más szférák történetéből veszi. Követendő modellnek Toynbee szemléletét vallja, ám kísérletet tesz ennek a korlátait is bemutatni, mint aki Toynbee-követőként fordul érdeklődéssel a folyamatfilozófia felé.

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